Monday, June 28, 2010

Quote of the Day

"Hillsdale College is one of the last true meritocracies. There's no place on its application for racial identity, and it doesn't know the racial make-up of its student body until it shows up on campus in the fall. 

'The purpose of education is not diversity,' Hillsdale President Larry Arnn says. 'It's truth.'"


~Detroit News

23 Comments:

At 6/28/2010 10:10 AM, Blogger juandos said...

This for some merit...
Nolan Finley notes: 'Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College, makes separation of education and state a core mission as he guides one of the only -- perhaps the only -- colleges in the country that doesn't take a dime of taxpayer cash'...

Note the date: Hillsdale College replaces state scholarship aid with private funds

by Associated Press , August 13, 2007

 
At 6/28/2010 10:50 AM, Blogger Walt G. said...

I like what Hillsdale College stands for, but it is not completely true there is no place on the application for racial identity. Here's from their Official Application: "Photograph: Please include a photograph. This photo is used to help the admissions staff remember you. It is not used for selection purposes."

I've seen a lot of college applications over my lifetime, and this is the only one I have ever seen that asks for a picture. I randomly browsed six of their Webpages and visually identified over 60 people, including the basketball team and coaches, and I found no black students, faculty, or coaches. I think it would be safe to assume from that sampling that few blacks attend or teach at Hillsdale. Of course, that does not prove Hillsdale College discriminates against blacks (intentionally or by merit). Maybe no blacks or few apply for their own reasons and they are discriminating against Hillsdale.

 
At 6/28/2010 10:57 AM, Blogger juandos said...

"I've seen a lot of college applications over my lifetime, and this is the only one I have ever seen that asks for a picture"...

Well Walt G, I've been to two different colleges back in the seventies and both had almost to the word the same line as on the Hillsdale college application...

Did pictures go out of style with the advent of political correctness?

 
At 6/28/2010 11:24 AM, Blogger Walt G. said...

juandos,

Yes, they don't use pictures now. Can you find any other college that does that in 2010? Along the same line, can you find any other college that won't put at least token blacks, Asians, and older people on their public Webpages.

Unless you are an on-air personality, pictures are frowned on for job applications, too. Even if it is not used for racial identification/discrimination, the thought exists that it might be.

 
At 6/28/2010 11:40 AM, Blogger juandos said...

"Can you find any other college that does that in 2010?"...

Hmmm, interesting question Walt G...

I know back in 2002 a friend of mine's youngest son applied for a slot at West Point and he was suppose to include and 8" by 10" photo of himself along with the filled out application...

Today, I have no idea...

 
At 6/28/2010 11:50 AM, Blogger bob wright said...

What I find ironic is that minorities in college will form fraternities and sororities that are just for their minority.

Additionally, I understand some minorities want their own, separate graduation ceremonies as well.

I thought that affirmative action in college admissions was for the educational benefits of diversity.

If diversity is the solution, why the self imposed segregation?

 
At 6/28/2010 11:57 AM, Blogger Walt G. said...

Juandos,

I just picked one that seems typical. Here's Ohio State's Application: "3. Please check where appropriate: □ 1 Black, non-Hispanic □ 2 American Indian or Alaska Native □ 3 Asian or Pacific Islander
□ 4 Hispanic □ 5 White, non-Hispanic This information is optional and will not be used in a discriminatory manner."

No picture requested, but am I the only one who sees a similarity to Hillsdale's picture requirement?

 
At 6/28/2010 12:09 PM, Blogger bob wright said...

Maybe they use the picture for the student ID if the student eventually attends.

I have seen several professional offices recently take pictures of their clients/patients in order to put names with faces to help the staff address clients/patients by name when they see them. It's supposed to help with customer service. The Vanderbilt Clinic in Nashville did this with my daughter last week.

Likewise, I could see a small college attempting to portray a small-town, friendly atmosphere where school staff recognize you.

Obviously, these are just guesses.

 
At 6/28/2010 12:18 PM, Blogger Walt G. said...

bob wright,

That would come after acceptance. Human resource departments require a clean drug test after a job offer is made, too. That shows the selection process does not discriminate.

There's a good possibilty none of these requirements are used to discriminate, but the thought is still there: Why chance it? Hillsdale has the information to use as they please.

 
At 6/28/2010 1:48 PM, Blogger sethstorm said...


I just picked one that seems typical. Here's Ohio State's Application: "3. Please check where appropriate: □ 1 Black, non-Hispanic □ 2 American Indian or Alaska Native □ 3 Asian or Pacific Islander
□ 4 Hispanic □ 5 White, non-Hispanic This information is optional and will not be used in a discriminatory manner."

The same university that will gladly throw a bunch of international students in ahead of other Ohioans + US Citizens unless you're a do-nothing liberal arts major.

Reverse discrimination if you will.

 
At 6/28/2010 3:16 PM, Anonymous Rand said...

Perhaps Hillsdale intends to discriminate against UGLY people!

 
At 6/28/2010 3:46 PM, Blogger PeakTrader said...

Hillsdale College seems to have an ignorant economics program:

"A consistent free-market approach to economics and business distinguishes the Department's faculty, curriculum, and other course content from typical college programs."

It seems much different than when I attended CU-Boulder:

"Economics is a quantitative, policy oriented social science with a highly developed body of theory and a wide range of real-world applications...Theoretical models, understanding of economic and policy making institutions, quantitative analysis, and the examination of data are all part of this field of knowledge."

 
At 6/28/2010 4:40 PM, Blogger Ron H. said...

"Hillsdale College seems to have an ignorant economics program:"

"A consistent free-market approach to economics and business distinguishes the Department's faculty, curriculum, and other course content from typical college programs."


Peak, what am I missing? What do you consider to be ignorant about their economics program?

 
At 6/28/2010 5:07 PM, Blogger Ron H. said...

bob wright said:

"Maybe they use the picture for the student ID if the student eventually attends.

In that case, I would be happy to provide one AFTER I'm accepted. I won't need a student ID otherwias.

"Likewise, I could see a small college attempting to portray a small-town, friendly atmosphere where school staff recognize you."

They can't recognize me if they don't admit me. Friendly atmosphere doesn't matter unless I'm on campus.


"I have seen several professional offices recently take pictures of their clients/patients in order to put names with faces to help the staff address clients/patients by name when they see them."

This is an excellent idea. I go out of my way to do businesses with people who recognize me, and call me by name. However, as with school, this only applies to existing clients/patients. No one, to my knowledge, asks for pictures of prospective clients.

Rand may be on to something here:

Perhaps Hillsdale intends to discriminate against UGLY people!

As far as I know, this is still legal.

 
At 6/28/2010 7:01 PM, Blogger Marko said...

I am really torn on this one. On one hand, I think that colleges should be allowed to admit the students they want, whatever the reason. I suppose that means they can pick people because of the color of their skin, or ancestry, or language, or based on what kind of sex they like and with whom.

On the other hand, I think that choosing people on the basis of their race is really really vile, for any reason. I don't believe in group rights - so I don't think that picking this person over that person because this person is a member of a group that was treated poorly historically. If YOU were mistreated by ME, then I can see where you have some claim to affirmative action by ME to make it right, no one else need be involved.

I suppose my middle ground for now would be if you are going to make racial discrimination against minorities illegal, you should make all forms of racial discrimination illegal. Including chosing a minority over a majority just because they are a minority. That is just as wrong, it seems to me. Treats people like fungible objects - denies their existence as individuals deserving of human respect and dignity. Crime against humanity, in my opinion.

Rand Paul style disclaimer - I am against racial discrimination.

 
At 6/28/2010 8:35 PM, Blogger PeakTrader said...

Ron, economics is not limited to the free market. Hillsdale may reflect normative or qualitative economics instead of positive or quantitative economics.

However, in economics, it seems more important to learn the methodology than attain the "right" or "wrong" answers.

 
At 6/28/2010 8:44 PM, Blogger Ron H. said...

Walt G. said:

"Here's Ohio State's Application: "3. Please check where appropriate: □ 1 Black, non-Hispanic □ 2 American Indian or Alaska Native □ 3 Asian or Pacific Islander
□ 4 Hispanic □ 5 White, non-Hispanic This information is optional and will not be used in a discriminatory manner."


Should I take that to mean it won't be used in the admission process for any purpose?

"No picture requested, but am I the only one who sees a similarity to Hillsdale's picture requirement?

Walt G. I agree. What possible use could they have for my picture BEFORE acceptance?

"Along the same line, can you find any other college that won't put at least token blacks, Asians, and older people on their public Webpages.

If they are truly unconcerned with racial identity, as they say, then why should they be concerned with the racial composition of pictures on their web pages?

Perhaps they don't have any "token Blacks, Asians, or old people" to take pictures of.

 
At 6/29/2010 6:24 AM, Blogger Walt G. said...

Ron H

Pictures are controlled messages of those who publish them. If you are thinking of joining a club or group of some type and you surf their Websites and only see women, do you think that is a group you would fit in and want to join? Well, I could see where some guys would think that is great :)

Usually whoever is in charge of recruitment wants to make sure all groups are represented in their publications so that all groups feel welcome at their establishment. Putting all whites or all women in published material can have the same effect as a caption that states: "No Blacks Allowed" or "No Women Allowed."

I want to make it clear that I am not saying Hillsdale College discriminates against anyone. It's a good chance few or no blacks want to go to a 1400 student college in the middle of a cornfield miles away from any big town. It's also possible many blacks go there and for some reason Hillsdale College is not putting their pictures on the Website. At the same time, to say that Hillsdale College does not require race or ethnicity disclosed because they don't ask for it on their application is not completely accurate as long as they require a picture with the initial application.

 
At 6/29/2010 8:13 AM, Blogger juandos said...

"It seems much different than when I attended CU-Boulder..."...

Ahhh, it seems you were dosed with a bit of Keynesian nonsense while at CU in your economics classes...

 
At 6/29/2010 10:56 AM, Blogger PeakTrader said...

A big tax hike quote?:

Obama on deficit and debt critics: 'I'm calling their bluff'
Jun 28, 2010

"Next year, when I start presenting some very difficult choices to the country, I hope some of these folks who are hollering about deficits and debt step up," Obama said after the G-20 summit in Toronto. "Because I'm calling their bluff."

He said, "And we'll see how much of that -- how much of the political arguments they're making right now are real, and how much of it was just politics."

 
At 6/29/2010 12:08 PM, Anonymous DrTorch said...

Ron,

Nope. Discriminating against ugly has been addressed

http://www.mayitpleasethecourt.com/journal.asp?blogid=897

Seems like I read something very recent about it too.

 
At 6/29/2010 1:20 PM, Blogger Ron H. said...

DrTorch said...

"Nope. Discriminating against ugly has been addressed"

Sheesh! There's nothing left to discriminate against.

From my observations only, ugly must not often be discriminated against.

 
At 6/30/2010 11:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I still can't believe the discrimination topic is even under discussion. Hillsdale is a private college that does not take taxpayer dollars. They only have to answer to their students and private donors. They may do as they please as far as I'm concerned. If I don't like it, I won't support it.

 

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