Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Car Scalping? Camaros Selling Above Sticker Price

AOL Autos -- Do you want a 2010 Chevrolet Camaro? You'd better be prepared to offer the dealer more money than the MSRP requires, and you'd better be willing to wait. Various reports have indicated that General Motors can't build the reborn bow tie pony car fast enough to quench public demand. The Camaro was originally built from 1967 to 2002; the 2010 model marks the brand's rebirth.

Dealers have already booked about 25,000 orders for the Camaro, yet only half have been delivered to date. Analysts reportedly told Bloomberg that dealers are getting $500 over sticker on average, too, and at least one dealer is guessing that he won't have a Camaro to sell in stock for at least a year.

MP: If selling a ticket to a concert or sporting event at a price above face value is "ticket scalping" and potentially either illegal or unethical, why isn't selling a Camaro above sticker price considered to be "car scalping," and potentially either illegal and/or unethical? In other words, is there really any significant difference between a concert ticket and a car that would make any material difference when one or both sell above the stated "face value" or "sticker price?"

Update: NoWhining's comment is exactly correct and worth reprinting here: "MP's intent wasn't to discourage the right of car dealers and car buyers to set the price that each is willing to accept for the transaction to take place. The post pointed to the hypocrisy of decrying Ticket Scalpers as being unethical for freely exchanging something they own and therefore have the right to sell, at a price that a buyer wishes to freely give allowing a transaction to take place. Same principle."

And see related CD post here on "coin scalping."

21 Comments:

At 7/22/2009 7:32 PM, OpenID rssteddevelopment said...

Good thing the government is forcing them to make hybrids instead of those gas guzzlers that nobody wants.

 
At 7/22/2009 10:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess MP doesn't attend many concerts, every independent ticket agency sells tickes above the face value. How do you think they make their money?

 
At 7/22/2009 10:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It isn't illegal and/or unethical because the politicians haven't made it so/told us it should be so.

 
At 7/23/2009 1:48 AM, Blogger Keith said...

They need that money to make campaign contributions to keep their dealerships from getting shut down. It's how "capitalism" works now.

 
At 7/23/2009 5:52 AM, Blogger Walt G. said...

Sticker Price? Do you mean MSRP? The "S" stands for suggested. Most current state franchising laws don't allow wholesalers to set retail prices.

I don't know much about ticket pricing laws. Are those 'anti scalping" laws state laws or local ordinances? Maybe they should not print a price on the tickets. That works for U.S. stamps.

If you can't get a Chevrolet Camaro, you could always purchase another superb GM product when you are at the dealership.

 
At 7/23/2009 7:19 AM, Blogger NoWhining said...

I think you guys are missing the point. MP's intent wasn't to discourage the right of car dealers and car buyers to set the price that each is willing to accept for the transaction to take place. The post pointed to the hypocrisy of decrying Ticket Scalpers as being unethical for freely exchanging something they own and therefore have the right to sell, at a price that a buyer wishes to freely give allowing a transaction to take place. Same principle.

 
At 7/23/2009 8:25 AM, Blogger 1 said...

"I guess MP doesn't attend many concerts, every independent ticket agency sells tickes above the face value"...

Obviously YOU anon haven't been paying much attention to this site...

Professor Mark has covered ticket scalping and wasn't condemning it...

I remember when the Viper first rolled out, people where paying for a place in line (there was scalping for those place holder also) to buy those vehicles and if memory serves those place holders weren't cheap...

 
At 7/23/2009 8:32 AM, Blogger Walt G. said...

Ticket scalpers? You know when you are compared to car dealers and you lose, you have low job stature :) Maybe we should call them ticket revenue enhancers.

 
At 7/23/2009 8:36 AM, Anonymous Rand said...

People want to buy muscle cars before 0bama bans them.

 
At 7/23/2009 10:31 AM, Anonymous gettingrational said...

No political/economic statement but simply this car is really cool.

 
At 7/23/2009 11:17 AM, Anonymous autostry said...

People are just willing to pay more to get ahead of everybody else.

 
At 7/23/2009 2:52 PM, Blogger 1 said...

"People are just willing to pay more to get ahead of everybody else"...

Which begs the question who would pay what for one of these?

From Autoblog: VIDEO: The Quick and the Dead - Bugatti Veyron vs. Nissan GT-R

 
At 7/23/2009 3:07 PM, Blogger 1 said...

"People want to buy muscle cars before 0bama bans"...

Then maybe you might want to snatch up one of these Ultimate Aero Twin Turbo while you still can...

YouTube video: SSC Ultimate Aero:the worlds fastest production car @ 255.83

 
At 7/23/2009 3:29 PM, Blogger Robert Miller said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 7/23/2009 3:53 PM, Blogger 1 said...

"You still haven't learned what Begging the Question means"...

Ahhh, Robert!, Robert!, Robert!...

My man you are still under the misimpression that I mean it...

Its basically for that one particular anon and that other hearty lad SS who post those ever so clever but thoroughly comments...

Its called baiting bear...:-)

Its fallacy playtime is all...

 
At 7/23/2009 4:49 PM, Blogger Walt G. said...

Robert Miller,

Yes, I have a 1994 Harley Davidson. I had to pay list price for a used one in 1995 that had 12,000 miles on it.

My friend at the local HD dealership found the bike for me. Even he could not get a new one for me. The dealership doled out its fixed allotment of the next year's bikes by lottery. I drew a high number in a public drawing. Some dealers had waiting lists, but that did not work out too well because some people magically moved up the list faster than others and painted all the dealers as shady.

Although manufacturers could charge whatever they wanted to charge, HD twisted dealer arms not to do so. It sure made the dealership mad when a lottery winner loaded a new bike on a trailer to sell for above MSRP--it couldn't have any miles on it or the value dropped. I guess that could be termed motorcycle scalping :)

HD eventually fixed the supply problem by opening another assembly plant, and the company is still doing very well. I wish I had bought HD stock instead of GM, but you can’t win them all.

 
At 7/24/2009 2:59 AM, Blogger OA said...

$500 over MSRP isn't much of a mark up. The Prius for example was going $3,000 above. But for GM and the shrunken auto market, that is good news.

The biggest problem with scalpers is that frequently the first few folks in line (or online) will buy thousands of tickets each, and usually all of the best seats.

Imagine if the first people in line at the Mac stores could have bought as many iphones as they wanted. They could have re-sold every phone the store had while they were waiting in line and bought the whole lot the release day.

The car dealers, like the iphone customers, will have their allotments of popular models restricted. One dealer will not be allowed to buy most of the lot.

 
At 7/24/2009 9:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I may be way off base, but I thought the deal with ticket scalping had to do with a fixed supply. A concert or sporting venue only has so many seats (tickets) in the building and therefore a fixed supply. I believe the laws were written to "protect" the consumer from one or two people/businesses buying every ticket available and then jacking the price up because now they control the supply.

 
At 7/24/2009 1:05 PM, Blogger OBloodyHell said...

> NoWhining said... I think you guys are missing the point.

Not at all. They have a point. It's just on their heads.

CLUE < --- GET ONE, they are Absolutly FREE!!


"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and carry on..."
- Winston Churchill -

 
At 7/24/2009 1:09 PM, Blogger OBloodyHell said...

> The biggest problem with scalpers is that frequently the first few folks in line (or online) will buy thousands of tickets each, and usually all of the best seats.

I'm sure the dealers are not having a problem with "one car to a customer".

Your argument is fallacious and irrelevant. What your argument is valid for is limiting the purchased number of tickets per visit, not the selling price of a ticket thus obtained.


If each person in line could only buy 4 tickets for each drivers' license they had with them, max, oh, 20 tickets, then there would be no large-scale scalpers such as you describe. Problem solved.

 
At 9/09/2009 9:42 AM, Blogger Gary said...

so you get reemed and pay over sticker, lets say 1500, you've now paid msrp which is already too much, and you add even more to a car that in a year will lose the hype and the price, then you trade/sell the car in is a few years based on a blue book value, better hold that jaw shut!

 

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